Time of color correction

[Marcelo Cosme]

In a blockbuster film or tv series what is the average time of color correction?

Sometimes I think we run so much due to the term of the channels and producers here in Brazil.

How do you work when you receive a material to create the look?

[Tom Poole]

80-100 hours depending on budget, length etc. 

I've done DI's in way less time than that though

[Sam Gilling]

Like Tom said it depends on a few factors. I've got a feature coming up next week but it's only 84 minutes and 300-ish shots, so I don't think I'll need more than 3-4 days on it, and even that'd be taking it slow.

As budgets go up then invariably time allocated to DI will too, especially when you have new versions of VFX shots being swapped in/out or last minute edit changes being made etc.

I'd say the standard for a studio feature is 2-3 weeks, but that can vary from The Revenant taking two months down to Sicario being done in under a week. 

[Marcelo Cosme]

Thank Tom and Sam for sharing  information.

[Margus Voll]

It really depends on so many variables as said before.

Average i have done is in 2 weeks (10-14 days) More complex ones on 4 weeks with super heavy VFX and complex pipeline.

One i did in 7 days got ASC award. DOP was very very good and came in to grading with clear vision and well prepped.

So it depends a lot. 

Also keep in mind if you have to just color or do conform and delivery rendering and so on plus TV and VOD variations in grading. 

[Joseph Owens]

If this was hanging driver-side doors on new Camaros coming down the Chevrolet assembly line, you could say 20 seconds per clip, do the math.  And wouldn't that be great?  We used to be able to plow through a semi-timed IP, feature length, marking events (Auto-detect and fix) 4 or 5 assembled lab rolls in about 20 hours or so. Edit density was low compared to today. DaVinci could store up to 999 events in a list.

I am looking at a feature open here now, 4.5K resolution, mostly R3D source, 1,781 events. I lose about 2 minutes every half hour to auto-save.  Don't know why its dragging -- oh, wait a minute, ACES IDT/ODT transforms, NR, 4.5K dpx reference stills, tracked, animated secondary qualifications, smart-cache...  Because I am re-creating a mismatched lighting setup in many scenes (editor went for story and not necessarily lighting continuity in master scenes) there is a large amount of synthetic foreground/background colorist-roto going on, so I have no way of estimating how long this project is going to take.  Although the DP took a great deal of care on-set, that work was undone by shuffling the chronology of the shot order.  

But all at national commercial quality standard, of course.  So when Saatchi & Saatchi stop by and use up a week deciding on 8 shots for a 20-30-second spot...  with a 4-figure/hr star facility -- that's for re-grading every pore on your 6-figure/hr supermodel.

Expectations really have to be managed because you cannot multiply that by 200 and hope that it even fits in the schedule.

jPo, CSI

 

 

[Jamie Dickinson]

I've always thought a rule of thumb of one reel (22 minutes, is that right?) taking 8 hours is a good starting point. Plus a day or two for revisions and tweaks. Sometimes less sometimes more. Broadcast documentary of 50 odd minutes in a working day?  (I find that tricky).  

[Mitch Paulson]

On 6/16/2017 at 8:15 PM, Sam Gilling said:

Like Tom said it depends on a few factors. I've got a feature coming up next week but it's only 84 minutes and 300-ish shots, so I don't think I'll need more than 3-4 days on it, and even that'd be taking it slow.

As budgets go up then invariably time allocated to DI will too, especially when you have new versions of VFX shots being swapped in/out or last minute edit changes being made etc.

I'd say the standard for a studio feature is 2-3 weeks, but that can vary from The Revenant taking two months down to Sicario being done in under a week. 

FYI, We didn't do Sicario in under a week. We ended up using 60 hours to complete that DI. 

The lowest I usually get is movies that want to be done in about 60-65 hours. Those never have 3D or HDR pass to worry about. Movies like Rouge One, which had all the formats, took me months to complete and ended up using about 300 hours. So, it really can vary. 

[Sam Gilling]

3 minutes ago, Mitch Paulson said:

FYI, We didn't do Sicario in under a week. We ended up using 60 hours to complete that DI. 

The lowest I usually get is movies that want to be done in about 60-65 hours. Those never have 3D or HDR pass to worry about. Movies like Rouge One, which had all the formats, took me months to complete and ended up using about 300 hours. So, it really can vary. 

Ah my bad, I was going off memory from an interview Roger Deakins did a while back. Found it - http://www.afcinema.com/Cinematographer-Roger-Deakins-BSC-ASC-discusses-his-work-on-Denis-Villeneuve-s-film-Sicario.html?lang=fr

Quote

 

What do you bring to the image during digital colour timing ?

RD : I sometimes hear certain cinematographers or colour timers explain that you can really create the film’s “look” using digital colour timing. That doesn’t make any sense to me. The visual identity of a film is created when it is shot, period. Sicario, like most of the films I have done, didn’t take more than seven days of work in the colour timing room. But those seven days are spent entirely with the colour timer, so that copy after copy, we obtain the final version. Overall, five days for the first version shown to Denis, then two days spent making the final corrections. A very simple, very direct step, where the few manipulations made to the image are essentially reduced to fixing the inaccuracies of colour that inevitably occur in modern outdoor daylight shooting conditions.

 

Can't wait for Blade Runner btw.

[Mitch Paulson]

yeah, we did a full week and spilled over into the following week. We then still had vfx shots and titles being dropped in. So really it was almost 2 weeks to finish it. 

And Blade Runner is going to be really cool!

[Margus Voll]

It probably depends then how nicely it is done on set also.

I bet material from Deakins is super uniform to begin with ?

[Dylan R. Hopkin]

In my neck of the woods it's usually:

Feature film: 10 - 12 days (depending on the shot-count, duration, uniformity of the footage, amount of different locations and budget) If the film has a fair amount of vfx, we usually get additional time to grade. Trim passes for other deliverables get extra time added.

TV drama (45 min ep): 3 - 5 days (depending on the same circumstances as stated above)

The numbers refer to the time you have to complete the grade from an ungraded 'blank canvas' with no pre-grading done in advance, right through to final approval. Timeline-conform and splitt-checking has been done in advance.

Sidenote: Another 'rule of thumb' I have heard is 1 hour grading time for every minute film. But as you see, the time I usually get is less, at least for episodic TV-drama.

cheers

Dylan

dylanhopkin.com

 

[Emily Haine]

In my experience, two days on a drama episode is usually enough. Sometimes the lead will do a touch-up and final adjustments when the whole season is worked through. With new digital delivery specifications, it could require some extra attention but that is usually performed by the mastering guys.

[Nicolas Hanson]

On 6/18/2017 at 10:18 PM, Mitch Paulson said:

We ended up using 60 hours to complete that DI. 

The lowest I usually get is movies that want to be done in about 60-65 hours. Those never have 3D or HDR pass to worry about. Movies like Rouge One, which had all the formats, took me months to complete and ended up using about 300 hours. So, it really can vary. 

That must have been a very efficient process as that's not many hours considering creative processes often include inputs and involvement from many creatives. Did you feel 60 hours was 'enough' or did you face any budget limitations on Sicario?

 

[Mitch Paulson]

3 hours ago, Nicolas Hanson said:

That must have been a very efficient process as that's not many hours considering creative processes often include inputs and involvement from many creatives. Did you feel 60 hours was 'enough' or did you face any budget limitations on Sicario?

 

We do have a very efficient process at EFilm. With that movie, there weren't a lot of creatives involved. Roger and I did our pass, then would present to Denis. He has a lot of trust in Roger, so we didn't get a ton of changes from him. There also weren't a ton of vfx shots either. The ones we did have were fairly simple. We didn't have to spend a lot of time having to updating shots. So, with all that, 60 hours was plenty for that movie. There weren't any budget restrictions on it really, we had more time allowed for the DI, we just didn't need it all. 

[Marc Wielage]

Whenever a client asks me this, I always laugh and say, "this is like the 'how much does it cost to build a boat?' conversation." I've done entire features in one day, and I've done features in four months. (Dances with Wolves was 4 months, and each Star Wars film I did took two months, and those were often 12-hour days, probably 250 hours each.) I think Jamie's estimate of a day per 20-minute reel is reasonable.

I generally divide it into shots: if we have 400 shots in a one-reel timeline, and we have to get it done in 8 hours, then we have about 1.5 minutes per shot (maximum) to get it done in about 8 hours. Any time we have to stop and do intricate keys, layers, window tracking, beauty fixes, drastic time-of-day changes, or relighting will throw off the schedule. In episodic TV, you're lucky to get 2 x 10-hour days, and I'd say 2 x 8-hour days is more typical. There are always exceptions: I'm told that Game of Thrones takes 5 days, but that's a very VFX-heavy show with a lot of very challenging work. 

If I can set my own pace, I think 1 day per reel and then another day for a client-supervised pass with fixes is reasonable. If this is a 6-reel film, then that would be 12 days, plus a day at the beginning for the conform and another day at the end for final deliverables. But I also try to build in provisions for overages, changes, redos, fixes, and so on. Legitimate QC fixes I'll do for free provided it's a shot here or there (maybe 6 total).

[Alex Prohorushkin]

My working time:

 

Feature film 90min / 850-1200 shots / grading time ~ 80-120 hours (10-14 days)

TV serials 45-52 min / 350-600 shots / grading time ~ 24-40 hours (3-5 days)

Create Look - 6-12 hours, but maybe 2 hours or 5 days  

regards.

 

[Marcelo Cosme]

3 minutes ago, Alex Prohorushkin said:

My working time:

 

Feature film 90min / 850-1200 shots / grading time ~ 80-120 hours (10-14 days)

TV serials 45-52 min / 350-600 shots / grading time ~ 24-40 hours (3-5 days)

Create Look - 6-12 hours, but maybe 2 hours or 5 days  

regards.

 

Thanks!

[dermot.shane]

about the same as Alex for a feature,  10-20 days depending on budget, although i've not seen a feature with only 800 cuts in it for a deacde or more (if ever), 1800-2200 is more common in 2018 with my clent base

but for TV i can go alot faster once we have looks in place, and that usualy happens when gradeing the pilot or next season's sizzle reel and trailers

typcialy 10-12 hr per 48 min ep, more at the begning of a season, and less at the end, more cut-n-paste of looks from prevoius shows in the same set by ep12, we are really only looking at new sets and QC issues. and that goes fast

[Mark Mulcaster]

I do a lot of non-scripted factual and light entertainment work, 50minute programmes and I'm usually booked 16hours for that (2x8hr days). For me that works out a day to grade the whole show, then review and tweak the next morning. Client signs-off at 2pm and I deliver back about 4pm.

This is averaging about 800-1000 shots per film, and 2hours per part - some parts take longer and some less time depending upon duration.

 

Ive recently completed 5 x 10minute short indie films and that was 1x 8hour day per film that was with DOP and client present for the whole day.

I think its sometimes hard to know exactly how long to quote for a job as it maybe a short piece with many cameras, cuts and locations or a long piece with only 1 camera and a single location.

As soon as you start to add keys and qualifiers your time can get easily eaten away very quickly!

[Marcelo Cosme]

Many thanks to everyone for sharing information. And how good it is to have a channel like Lowepost, where at any moment a guy like @Mitch Paulson comes in and writes about Sicario and Deakins ... Thanks!

[bruce alan greene]

On 1/15/2018 at 10:24 AM, Alex Prohorushkin said:

My working time:

 

Feature film 90min / 850-1200 shots / grading time ~ 80-120 hours (10-14 days)

TV serials 45-52 min / 350-600 shots / grading time ~ 24-40 hours (3-5 days)

Create Look - 6-12 hours, but maybe 2 hours or 5 days  

regards.

 

How many hours did we use on "Babushka" Sasha?  BTW, you did a wonderful job!

[Margus Voll]

Nobody mentioned Mad Max here?
Would be good in comparison..

[Orash Rahnema]

With this estimate time is taken into consideration the "needs" of dop and director or are this "maximum" timing given by budget/production

I work with a dop (that I really like and we have great relationship) that is not easy to work with, he just doesn't want to stop. 

He could work on a grade for a whole year if someone doesn't stop him, and I cannot always do that.